breakthrough for for Luis Inacio da Silva, known making it a close contest with Collor de Mello, who was elected president with 35 million votes Workers for the Workers Party (PT). Party
did not have had very good results, the results even though it is a struggle to keep this lead the fight against the policy of austerity. will introduce at the economic level. Thirdly. came clear that some of the political positions SOCIALIST OUTLOOK no 23, April 1990 people coming from struggles, the working sibility of having Lala as president was as the In this situation Collor appeared as an in- dependent candidate. He had huge support from the mass media - the largest television In terms of the PT we have three major results, The first is the large vole over the party to deepen its internal discussions - it he- gecisie, sections of the petit-bourgeoisie, or from the unorganised layers - the unemployed and so on, who looked to him as some one Ferent From Lula, who had the support of company in Brazil openly supported him - and he campaigned with a moralism which ganised, posing as a raviour who was going to solve problems without people having to whole country. The PT is now a national party. In some areas where the PT previously tedly the main opposition to the govemment. hegemony - it is not somcthing that is just given. The party is soen in the eyes of the masses as the possible alternative who will privatisation and the IMP policies that Collor getting so close to victory challenged the who could solve their problems. This was dif- could enter the consciousness of the unor- class and the social movements. The very pos were amazing. Secondly, the PT is undoub ĐP: Would it have been a problem if the PT had won at this stage? result of those struggles, struggle for il to distance himself from it. The situation was for thirty years and people's expectations of most important reasons why we ended up with perspectives. It was a very polarised campaign population, and received a very small number tion had a ridiculous result in the clections - hons were so polarised, the votes for the PT came from the most organised sectors of society, the organised workers and the social to he identified with the federal govemment. didate. None of the bourgeois parties wanted to be seen as responsible for the period of The situation gave room for the emergence of a candidate, (Fernando) Collor, who had been a part of the transition but had been able very much polarised during the clections, not It was the first direut presidential election change were very deep. That is one of the two candidates, Lula and Collor, who Were very much opposed in tens of political at the end and the other candidates were PT: The two main bourgeois parties were absolutely discredited in the eyes of the of votes. Their candidates were not real op tions despite the fact that there had been very strong partics. The PMDR and the PFL, which had politically supported the bourgeois transi- The second thing is that because the elec- The votes for Collor were from the bour- The president himself didn't support any can- DP: What is your halance sheet of the clee- what they called "democratic transition" that's a very important outcome. maginalised in the first round. only politically, but socially. its Sao Paolo State executive. geois political transition from the period of geois govemment was led by an alliance of of the country, where almost half the voters are concentrated - Collor's margin of victory over generated a powerful enthusiasm the Popular Front (FBP) to support Lula in the second round. The PT continues to consolidate its bases inflation rose to 1,700% and a Tatau Godinho who is a leading militant of the PT and a member of She is also a member of the National Womens' Secretariat and a supporter of the Socialist dictatorship. The attempt to stabilise the bour- two major bourgeois partics, These have been (43%). In the south east of the country - the key economic centre amongst the working class and whole of the Brazilian left joined Here, Dave Packer talks to PT: Since 1982-'84 we have seen a bour DP: Could you describe some of the main features of the political situation in Brazil foreign debt of $110 billion!). " of the austerity offensive (last movements, Democracy tendency. Lula was only 0.8%. campaign resistance Page 24
FEATURES workers and the popular PT: Well, I couldn't say it wouldn't be a lots of problems. What it would have done is make u strong change in the balance: and relationship of forces in favour of the movements in Brazil. Of course it would be an problem - there would be
open situation as to how it would develop. But the ideas the party had, and worked for, were written
in the programme of the would call a A FT govemment
of view is to deepen the transition of the PT to • revolutionary party. This has helped us to We are in a very privileged position with our political identification with the Fourth In- lemational. It is one of the important things in our political position and we don't consider it PT: Our tendency is fully respected. Thete democracy of the party and how to build a really democratic party. But its democracy is very good, very broad The PT has never been monolithic. Now it is accepted that the democratic internal life involves people or- party in Brazil through building the PT itself as a revolutionary party. So in this sense we are a part of the party, a current in the party that tries to work in the areas and influence the debates, and help - from our point of view - the development of the party. That means not just heing a part of it in terms of leadership or rank and file, hat also taking responsibility One of the important things from our point have a coherent position in our work inside the party - not being sectarian towards the dif- ficulties of development, because we soc them Very clearly the PT is the road to becom- ing a revolutionary party in Brazil and we think it has been a very positive development. On the other hand with the strength and the PT heing so rooted in the working class and the social movements in Brazil, it is also one of best possibilities to build mass revolution- to be contradictory to being a current in the DP: Do you have any problems being an or- have been problems in tens of internal tions is our idea of building a revolutionary alongside other currents for the political Page 25 development of the party. ary parties worldwide. as our difficulties too. ganised tendency? PT: The PT has from the very beginning identified itself with fighting for socialism in a capitalism. Secondly, it is identified with the concept of democratic socialism, and that is Our socialist project is a democratic one. And thirdly → which is not very clear - is the strategy: how to build the road to socialism in Brazil. This discussion has hnd a very positive evolution in the party. In the fifth national con- vention of the PT a document was carried which is the basis of a popular and democratic government, its programme and strategy. It begins to foreice how to fight for socialism - what are the possible alliances, and which are the key sectors in terms of social alliances, not Some specific discussions, like workers" self-defence have not heen tackled. In June we are going to have the national convention of the PT in which one of the central themes of DP: How does the Socialist Democracy Cur- PT: Socialist Democracy is a current which has existed in the PT since the very beginning of the party. One of our most important posi- posed it like that, the bourgerisie was very frightened of the prospects of a Lula govern- way, saying that it has to overthrow very important. The fight for socialism will re- quire a confrontation with the bourgeoisie. discussion is going to be to deepen the discus- rent, of which you are a part, participate in- in the PT, but has there been any thorough- party, and every one talks about socialism has the question of workers' self-defence sion on the strategy for socialism in Brazil. strategy and programme? For example, DP: The PT presents itself as a socialist side the PT and influence its evolution? going discussion about a revolutionary and workers' control been discussed? Mass rally of Brazilian CUT union confederation so much party alliances. clear way, saying FT: That could be a possibility. We don't look for other solutions to keep control, like Then we come to the problems. Although the party has a large influence in Brazilian society - a linge identification with the marses tured to give all the necessary answers even in workers and the movements to support and think it is the most probable. The bourgeiosic has already been discussing the changes in the political situation. One solution is to reduce the powers of the president by introducing a parliamentary system. That doesn't mean that a military coup is impossible, it is always a possihility for the bourgeoisie to solve a situa tion it can not control. But because of the political situation now, the bourgeoisic would PT: That is a possible outcome. Lula's vic- with allacks from the bourgeoisie on Lula's goverment, trying not to let if either rule the country or develop the programme that the PT has defended during the election. The possibility of this hecoming a pre-revolutionary situation depends very much popular movements wisc we would have deleal in u very short period of time. Even though we have not stahility. It would open up struggles - the out- und the working classes - it in still not struc- lemms of defending a Lula government: or tory would mean a period of big confronta- response to support Lula's government. Other- DP: Wouldn't the victory of Lula on a radi- ĐP: Would there have been the threat of a frontation with the bourgelosle and even cal programme create a situation of con- SOCIALIST OUTLOOK no 23. April 1990 defend the existence of a govemment. promote a pre-revolutionary crisis? weakening the federal govemment. come of which we cannot predict. the population. government - would not capitalism or the hour- geois state. It was clear there would be a confron- taten — a period of in- be a government to run on the workers and tions and struggles, military coup?
FEATURES ganising as political currents and fighting for PT: We organise our militants around the paper rather than the membership as a whole. It brings some conflicts because the party does not have official policy on currents inside the party So it is not always clear. Em Tempo is more of discussion journal for politics inside PT: Well we lave been working in the leadership of the PT. We have been working mostly for the presidential elections, very much integrated into the leadership, in this sense having nomal party relations with the Lula leadership. The position of Lula as a worker, from a very important sector - the ing class struggles So it is something impor taut for the party: But it is something that has metal workers - had a very important iden lification for the PT as a party related to work- been devcloping, in lens uf collective leader- DP: Can you organise around your paper DP: What is your attitude to the Lula their perspective. Em Tempo? leadership? the PT.
ship: more collective working of the party not ship between PT and the Brazilian TUC, DP: Could you tell us ahout the relation- the CUT trade union federation? centralising on one person.
ways see the importance of this, and womens' PT: The PT has a good position in lemme of dependent workers' party. But it has always been confronted by the need to develop its with class independence in these lerms, So the is to do with social alliances - peasant sectors proletarian composition but are not always identified an workers or with the trade union movement. Another important part of it is the How much do you try to win them or specific bourgeois sectors are not a part of this tempted lo build alliances with the Com- munist Parties, the Socialist Party, the Circens, ties - where we could work with them in a tions and with individuals rather than the par- ties themselves. That has been the policy so class independence - building itself as an in- hegemony in broader tems and how to deal discussion of the popular democratic strategy and social movements which have a very relationship to the petty-bourgeois sectors. neutralise them? It has always heen clear that In tenns of political partics we have at- and with some sectors of two bourgoos pat- united front way, but only in specilic sitta- SOCIALIST OUTLOOK no 23. April 1990 Unfortunately, the party doesn't al class independence - what alliances will it DP: Finally, what is the PT's attitude to role in the pity needs to be promoted. class independence alliance. ments: make? that are quite different - depending on how far CUT or the party. The CUT organises the vast see the need to organise apart from the state and more burcaucratised soctors PF: They affiliate syndicales rather than individuals - you re talking in millions but PT: Our: current with women a priority in the PT. Until a few years ago, women wers in # majority of the rank • particular discussion has gone either in the majorily of workers in opposition to the themscives as workers. it's difficuit to cor- respond that to militan- and file of the party and in the social move- filiation figures of the DP: What are the af- of the working class. DP: Can you tell us Women in the PT? who about the role of makes working the government CUT? from cy. The new Brazilian government of Fernando Collor de Mello has lost no time in announcing a new package of Meanwbile the multinationals are being urged in, im- port restrictions are being lifted, and the exchange rate will float. State corporations including the giant steel Trade unions have protested at the proposals and their loud squeals from the banks who will be tightly regu- the richest ten percent, freeze withdrawals from savings company will be privatised. There will be big increases in austerity measures, including spending cuts, job losses Unlike Thatcher Collor argues for "more government and less state', introducing interventionist policies to tax accounts worth over $600, and freeze private bank ac- impact on living standards - but there have also been lated, with new laws threatening up to five years jail for Thatcherism in prices, with petrol already up 50 percent. Brazil? PT: The CUT organises the most active sectors of the working class - these forces are very much identified with the PT. But the CUT is broader - it involves political currents which are not a part of the PT. The political comman ground is quite strong, but the CUT has its nwn political development in terms of decisions, We do have some political positions economic infringements. and privatisation. counts. Pace 26
for all, privileges for none'. This slogan is Kashmir. The actual content of this call is forcing the idea of India as a basically Hindu lim Kashmir have been fuelled by the disputes designed to agitate against positive dis- crimination, but in order to he acceptable, the The BJP also call - again superficially in the name of equality - for the end of the limited degree of autonomy possessed by anti-Muslim. It would give Indian Hindus the right to buy land in Kashmir, conflicting with the national identity of Kashmiris and rein- The popular secessionist uprisings in Mus- slogan has to take a democratic form.