Pete Firmin for Socialist Outlook interviewed JEREMY CORBYN MP on May 14
"Pressure is the key"
SO: What do you think is the government’s programme?
JC: The government is trying to maintain the low corporate and income tax base and attract money in through high interest rates and a fast growing market economy.
It says unemployment will fall through the ‘trickle down’ effect. The reality is that the over-valued pound is raising unemployment in manufacturing, and it will get worse.
Then there are the long term effects of the South Asian collapse. The majority of inward investment in recent years has been from South Asia, and this will retrench to its home base and cause problems.
The welfare state should be a universal safety net - the Tories cut holes in it (lone parent benefit, boarding allowance and so on), which Labour has carried on.
Blair is reported to have sent back the initial report on the state pension because it is not radical enough, i.e. there is not a high enough level of compulsion for private schemes. The Tories never went as far as compulsion, only Chile under Pinochet did that.
"Recognition should be a major issue for the left in union conferences. The trade union leaders have kept quiet on everything else, saying recognition is the priority, but have not mobilised even on this"
In the absence of a decent national minimum wage the welfare to work strategy is an opportunity for unscrupulous employers to bring in welfare to work people on lower wages and get rid of long-standing employees. There are to be large amounts of money on offer to the employers for training, but I doubt how effective the monitoring of this will be.
That, together with the national minimum wage and trade union recognition bring in an element of compulsion, with the young forced into low paid jobs.
SO: What do you think of the TUC’s approach?
JC: I don’t know why the TUC got into this ludicrous debate about percentages of the workforce for recognition. It should be a basic right to be a member of a trade union and have it represent you.
A surprisingly large number of MPs are agitated about this issue. 140 attended a meeting with John Monks this week, and 120 sent apologies.
They were having a go at Monks for accepting the threshold, although things might change with Prescott’s mediation. The Cabinet may agree the White Paper shortly.
There is no news on the proposed level of the national minimum wage. The legislation has been passed in principle. The House of Commons would have to explicitly vote for any exemption for under-25s.
The trade unions as a whole have allowed the discussion on recognition to carry on in a vacuum. Discussions are purely through the General Secretaries to Monks and on to the government.
The CBI has been more effective than the unions. There has been no mobilisation by the unions. Prescott’s proposed exemption of small firms would exclude millions of workers from the legislation.
There has been a lack of activity by the unions as a whole. Current union members are more concerned with pay and conditions than recognition. Recognition should be a major issue for the left at union conferences.
The trade union leaders have kept quiet on everything else saying that recognition is the priority but have not mobilised even on this.
SO: How do you see the response of the Left to the government’s programme?
JC: The question is, to what extent do left parties challenge the mixed economy. Many have given up since the end of the Cold War.
In the 1970s they pursued a planned economy: now they sign up to the World Trade Organisation and MAI. There are disparate global movements on trade, child labour, poverty etc. Demonstrations at the G8 and Kyoto summits bring people together on a global level. There is an arrogance on the left that all good things stem from Europe.
The Campaign Group has grown a bit. Alice Mahon was elected to the National Policy Forum through the Parliamentary Labour Party. Concentrating on the welfare state is important for the left in the Party and unions. The MPs are doing fringe meetings at all the trade union conferences.
The Left in the Labour Party is trying to campaign on several fronts – the Gulf War, education, welfare state and so on.
The left should concentrate on issues of the welfare state and overall expenditure. Otherwise at the end of a Labour government we will have a low, compulsory pension.
The pensioners need our support. The arguments over lone parent benefit held up a lot of other things and sent out the message that there is a left in parliament prepared to fight.
SO: What are Blair’s plans with the Labour Party?
JC: Democracy in the Labour Party is central to a lot of things.
The centralised membership system is not about greater efficiency but centralising opinion.
The membership will be the last to be involved in the selection of candidates for the European and Scottish Parliaments and the Welsh Assembly. The NEC is told who to select.
The next stage – Westminster selection – is not clear yet. One suggestion is that there would be a mandatory panel – the NEC would interview before anyone could be selected.
This would destroy accountability and ensure that the first loyalty would be to the leader.
This year’s NEC elections are the first under the new system of non-MP CLP representatives. We have to campaign strongly for the slate. We have to replace Dennis Skinner with Liz Davies and so on.
On the London mayor they will probably set up an NEC panel and exclude Ken Livingstone.
The leadership hasn’t thought out its strategy on the Left MPs. I’m not sure if it will go for a purge, although some around Blair want clones.
There is an important left platform in parliament – it is important to stay in and defend what we’ve got. What will happen with the Labour Party will reflect what happens in society at large with opposition to reform of the welfare state.
Even before Partnership in Power it was difficult to reverse government policies. In that sense little has changed. Pressure is the key.
In my view the average Labour Party member has not changed much. A certain drift out by the Left is regrettable. Most Party members are not wedded to the New Labour project, although many thought we shouldn’t rock the boat in advance of the election.
Ken Coates is wrong to give up the game in the Party. There are significant changes for the worse, but the Labour Party retains huge working class support. I recognise his honesty, he is not motivated by his personal career.
There is a place in campaigns on the welfare state, Gulf war etc for people both inside and outside the Labour Party. In the activity against the Gulf War no-one asked whether someone was in the Labour Party or not, we all just got stuck in.
The need for comradely behaviour among the left is important.
SO: The single European currency has now been launched, what is your attitude?
JC: European Monetary Union is about handing control to bankers and calling it Europe. Bankers raise interest rates and cut spending. Britain is not yet in the EMU – but it has fulfilled the criteria.
"European Monetary Union is about handing control to bankers and calling it Europe. Bankers raise interest rates and cut spending. The poorer European countries like Spain will be hit hardest."
Opposition to the criteria is strong and some countries which claim to have fulfilled the criteria probably haven’t. The poorer European countries like Spain will be hit hardest.
Labour will go for a referendum after 2002: the government is boxed in on having to have a referendum. It will be a re-run of the 1975 referendum on Europe, when the `yes’ campaign knew what it was voting for, but the `no’ campaign was confused between those with a global vision and petty national chauvinists. It will be the same in this referendum.
It is not about protecting the queen’s head. There is no common ground with Teddy Taylor and Bill Cash.