Ken Loach has shot to global fame in recent years. Vincent Ostria spoke to him about his life and work. "I WAS born in Nuneaton, a Midlands ex-mining town. My father was an electrician in a tool making factory. He was never involved in trade unions. Like millions of others, my family was neither rich nor poor.
From the age of 14 l used to cycle to Stratford-upon-Avon to sec Shakespeare plays. I still read whe plays - they are extremely rich, varted and seasilve In the sixties after being a theatre job at BBC 2. We had to produce a film every week. We had really good script writers and a great time slot. Everyone looked at our plays.
The team was very much on the left. In those days it was impossible to avoid pollics In the 1980s I made documentaries for television (Ouestions of Leadership 1983-4), but they were never transmitted because they were too political.
They showed the political view of the left regarding the trade union leadership. For us, they were nos doing their job. They did not organise any opposition to Thatcher at the time when her politics were leading to mass unemployment.
My pontics was too much aRainst the current. For a while I had no work.
Hannily there was then Madden Agenda and Riff Raff. Hidden agenda was submitted to the Cannes him director, I was lucky cnough to get a .. festival and won the Prize of the Jury. ics prize. It was a new beginning for I decided to make a film on the Spanish Civil War because it was one of the big moments of the twentieth century; when people took power - the workers took coatrol of the factories and the farm workers occupied the land.
We tend to forget that there have been times when ordinary people have been in power. These moments should be remembered.
And we also have to say that their hopes were betrayed - not only by the fascists. but also by the stalinists.
It was the stalinists, not the tascists who retumed Ine land it tric original owners.
What happened in Spain in 1936 show's that it is possible for people to take control.
There were 3 million unemployed in Britain in the 1930s. Today there are 4 million. The far right is on the rise across Europe. There are many thines which unk the two penods A film about the past should attempt to understand the present.
Before making a film on the creation of a union of immigrant workers in Hollywood I am making two other
a sub-culture. Ken Loach When you grow up in London and you have artistic ability, everything is in place to enable it to develop. In Manchester, where there is nothing and nothing hapWhen I landed up in London, at 1617 years old, I didn't come back, it was like a pleasure park for me. Noel Gallagher The difference be. tween the kids of the North of England and those of Paris, New York etc, Is the humour. Even if the kid from Manchester is the same as the others, there's always a distinctive humour. That's why the Beatles charmed the whole world, no we souse or u mour. Ken Loach you have to disunguish between the people of the North. There are fundamental differences between Mancunians and Liverpudians, Mancunans are convinced that everyone from Liverpool is a bandit, that they are not to be trusted. For generations. Liverpudlians have been reputed for their corrosive humour. for be. ing comical and mischlevous. For me, it's not so much a question of town as of class. What hope for those 'chained to the mirror and the razor-blade'? Noel Gallagher It's very much tied to the working class. I find the same jokes whether I'm in Man. chester or London. it's no good complaining of our sad fate, the conversation always ends with a roar of laughter. Ken Loach What happened to your schoolmates? Noel Gallagher One or two became professional footballers, in clubs a little out of date like Portsmouth or Southampton: not at the level to stay in Manchester. The rest just disappeared. Ken Loach What is missing for your generation is the disciplinedon't like the moral sense of that word - which gave the lives of of work. You learnt it from your parents, your grandparents: that was the way it was and it wasn't going to change. These people were exploited, swindled, and they never thought of questioning the system of their lives. You, you don't have a structure, a framework for your life. At least they had a status, a dignity. With Thatcher, the number of unemployed increased to two, then three, million. All the notion of dignity through work was blown to pleces. Thatcher destroyed the working class. People of your age no longer know what it is to belong to a community which works. No doubt you know that better than I. Noel Gallagher It's a detail, but at one time, in families, everyone got up at the same time - because they had to go to work. And they came back together, ate together; one could talk. At the end of each road was the factory and, when it finished by closing, all the houses began to empty. In the north of Manchester there are whole streets of empty houses and, saddest of all. in town there are the Ken Loach Among the workless there are thousands of bulld ino workers who could rebuild the derelict houses. Noel Gallagher The notion of a Manchester, because we don't re. member what it was like to work. Myself, I had the chance to do work which pleased me: I went into a studio, recorded a song. released a record, I have a good life. What's more, I bring some pleasure to others. Most of my mates hate their work. Ken Loach At the same time as destroying the factories and jobs. they made people think themselves guilty because they were not loyal to this work ethic. Not only did they spike the work, they gave comstart of Thatcherism. people thought, I am out of work, it's an exception. Today, it's normal. Noel Gallagher in the 60s, when you heard of a family friend out of work, you knew it was temporary. Today, you start off life sure you'll never find a job. So you adapt your lifestyle to this new fact. You go to bed at 4 in the morning and get up in the afternoon, because there is noth-• ing better to do, nothing to expect from life. Ken Loach When you work, you But if you are forced out of the pack, you become isolated, abandoned. In the North, the notion of Loach: a bridge between the old generation and the new family has disappeared. What is the point of getting up in the morning? Where is there to go? Nool Gallagher Who wants to get out of the house to find other unemployed people, to hear their problems? It's everyone for them. selves, you stay at home. I know whole streets in Manchester where no one has work any more. And people don't talk, they are Gallagher: I know whole streets in Manchester where no one has work any more. And people don't talk.
ashamed and hide themselves away where thirty years ago they rubbed shoulders, all knew each other. They no longer have any. thing to tell, they live from day to day. Me, If I didn't have football and the guitar, God knows what I SOCIALIST OUTLOOK No. 92, October 28 1995, Page 7. would have become. I got the tal. ent to write songs and live from It. So l do my best to amuse people. Because I know that's all ! can do for them. Three and a half minutes of happiness in a gloomy and banal life, I'm afraid that's my only contribution. Ken Loach I can't even give them that, because cinema doesn't have the direct impact of music. It doesn't have the visceral side of Oasis' rock. Noel Gallagher With our music, people can forget I've never seen anyone dance in the cinema (laughs)... Ken Loach Your music is necessarily subversive. Its strength is that oldies like me don't like it. it your parents like the same songs as you, it's because you've bought bad records.