Alan Simpson was one of the 1992 intake of Labour MPs and is secretary of the Socialist Campaign Group. Rod Marshall asked for his views on the Labour party and socialism today. SO: What's your perception of what people feel about Tony AS: I remember hearing someone on my street saying that all this stuff about Labour's values sounds really good, but it's like being taken into an orchard and being shown these beautiful apples on the trees and you ask "I like the apples, where's the ladder?"
But, I think there is a real danger of focusing too much on the personality of the Labour leader. The real challenges is what are we going to do? SO: What can be done to stop the Labour Party from dying on the ground? AS: The base of the party has been demoralised as a result of several things. First, by being in opposition for a long time and second by having been told for much of that time that all we needed to do was to look more respectable and be less political.
The problem has been reinforced by the erosion of party democracy and the hunting out of decent socialists within the party.
The good news is that increasing sections of the general public haven't waited for permission from the Labour Party to start clamouring for specific areas of policy change and specific issues to be pushed back into the national po litical agenda.
In many ways the general public are much more radical than the Labour Party and there is a real opportunity for the party to revitalise itself simply by getting involved in campaigns at local level. SO: What would somebody gain by joining the Labour Party if they're already campaigning successfully on the issues that affect DEBATE them?
AS: In the past we've often done ourselves no favours by going round saying "vote for us and we'll do this". I think we have to be taking out a different message. If you want changes in the way the country's run then address the systems of government that ultimately make the decisions.
There are many lessons to be learnt from the '80s about the decline in campaigning activity which followed from people removing themselves from the Labour Party saying "its all just too much of a muddle". I think the muddle has been because radical and critical voices have stood outside. We need to bring people in from the campaigns. SO: Are you in favour of 'mass entry' into the Labour Party, of lots of different groups and ideas and of a federal Labour Party of all different kind of organised groupings? AS: No. I think the sectarianism of the left is a pain in the bum. What I'm talking about are people are involved in real campaigns around local, national or global issues.
The priority is how you build a broad left. I don't care how many different newspapers are on sale. What worries me is that we often lose sight of the main issues. SO: What do you think you've achieved since becoming secretary of the Campaign Group? supportive fashion. tremely healthy. anyone else. sentatives in parliament?
position. AS: Most important has been a strengthening of the links between the Campaign Group in parliament and the network of socialist campaign groups around the country because it's brought people together who were wanting to talk about active campaigning and pol- tant? icy issues in a comradely and The linkage between the left in parliament and radical voices outside is exOn the other hand, those who have talked about a sort of Red-Green alliance outside the Labour Party and encourage people to leave the Party were more responsible for the defeat of Dennis Skinner and Tony Benn on the National Executive Committee than SO: How far does Clintonisation in the party have to go before the party ceases to be a Labour Party? And if it ceased to be a Labour Party would you cease to be a member of it or one of its repreAS: We need to look at the position that Clinton himself is in as a result of Clintonisation. He is in deep trouble. It wouldn't surprise me if the Democratic Party didn't turn around and say to him 'you're unelectable' for a second term. Because you don't stand for anything.
I'm certain that Labour will get elected at the next general election. The real questions are what happens six to nine months in when the really deep rooted problems in the economy start to become absolutely clear and the press start to wade in wanting Labour to do even more of the dirty work that the Tories wouldn't do. Labour would be faced with very stark choices. SO: There has been a lot of discussion in the leadership election about the enormous constraints placed on MPs from the Left who get into the shadow cabinet. AS: The left have got to decide whether they want to be only in opI think we have to have an agenda which sees more and more members of the left in parliament getting into positions where they can shape policies and where they hold a corner in the ring whilst other people are climbing into it. SO: Is that the same reason why you think the NEC slate is imporAS: No, the NEC slate is quite different. I'm in favour of separating the NEC from the shadow cabinet.
You have this absurd position of the same people talking to each other about the same issues and just wearing different hats. So I think that the slate for the NEC has to address first of all the primacy of going onto that body to carry out party conference decisions. And second is to reclaim the NEC as a child of party itself... SO: Then the Campaign group slate for the NEC should include members of the party who aren't MPs and should be decided more by the actual supporters of the network rather than by the Campaign group MPs? AS: I'm quite happy to see an increase in parliamentary Labour Party or shadow cabinet representations on the NEC and determined by the shadow cabinet. But there is an equally compelling case to have membership of the shadow cabinet incompatible with membership of the NEC.
If you go one step further, it ought to follow that there should be a guaranteed number of places on the NEC for party members not necessarily members of the parliamentary Labour Party.
SOCIALIST OUTLOOK No. 69, September 24 1994, Page 11